DKC Atlas Forum

[Geno]

The shape of the eyes, and the area where the beak meets the neck look a bit weird.
They are both too flat.
And the pupil seems to be a little too small.
Actually, the beak itself is a little weird too.

Here's a render of (Master) Necky's head, for reference.

Spoiler!

Although other than the sightly misshapen head, and oddly coloured feathers, your model looks spot on!

[Cyclone]

Thanks for the crits guys/gals.

I was using the reference found here. I could not make out the details that are in the image geno posted. That said I will work on the head some more using that reference.
http://www.dkc-atlas.com/gallery/offici ... ies/page/3

I think this is much better. What do you think?

[Super Luigi!]

Well, I certainly like your render! Since I'm not a master on Neckys (pun intended), I can't provide a solid comparison, but I'd say your render very closely matches Rare's.

[Cyclone]

I can't provide a solid comparison, but I'd say your render very closely matches Rare's.

Thanks but... I don't feel its that good yet.

[Cyclone]

[Super Luigi!]

I like the new textures. They make Necky look more... robust! Like a real creature from way up north!

[Cyclone]

Thanks.

Here is a more accurate version of Necky's head. I still have to add those wrinkle's and the red ring under his eyes(or I may leave it out, does he need it?).

Excuse the black spot. render was taking too long.

[sonosublime]

Looking awesome. I like the feathery texture. Is it similar to the one you used for Squawks?
Unless you're planning to have close-up shots of Necky, I wouldn't worry about getting too bogged down on the details.

[Cyclone]

The feathery texture on Sqwawks I used particle objects that were attached to the mesh using Particle Flow. Necky is using feather objects distributed with the hair/fur modifier. Similar approaches but different tools.

I don't know if I will have close up shots but I like to be able to. I want to use as many baddies in the animation as I have patience for. It will make the animation more interesting. The games are full of atmosphere and life and I would like to incorporate that feel to the animation.

I added the ring under his eye and wrinkles on his neck. I'm not sure on the wrinkles I kinda like them but they may be distracting.

[sonosublime]

Keep the red eye rim and wrinkles. They really add to the vulture like look.

[Geno]

At first, the head looked odd, but after seeing it (pretty much) complete, and from the same angle as that Master Necky art, now it looks perfectly fine.

[Cyclone]

Necky with wing folding test.

look good,bad?

[sonosublime]

Looks very good. Just like a real bird folding its wings.

[Cyclone]

I improved the wing folding on his left wing. There was too much folding and penetration on the right wing. Vultures have long wingspans and thick wings. so I didn't fold them as much. There are still a few feathers that don't follow the rig properly.

[Phyreburnz]

This looks awesome! You made it like a billion times better! I think that looks perfect!

[Cyclone]

^Thanks. Nothing is perfect though so be honest about the flaws...

Here is a new version showing a different angle and with fixed feathers. Still a few not following the rules. Bad feather you. Also this is a wrong pose as his body is in a flying pose not standing like a bird would be doing with his wings folded like that. Still need to rig the body, neck and feet.

[Cyclone]

I got him in a standing/resting pose now. The legs may be a little long but his wings would be going through the ground if they were any shorter. Also they need more bend I think.

Suggestions to improve the model would be great. Thanks!

[Cyclone]

Animated him flying away. His feet need a little animating but I didn't get to that though. Also I think he needs more weight during the initial take off.

[Cyclone]

No feed back? I hope I didn't scare you guys away.
Your feed back helps a lot so please continue.

Thanks

[Phyreburnz]

I'm sorry I haven given any feedback. I'm sick wih a cold. I'll be up for more things in a few days.

The one thing I would like to suggest is to have necky's wings tucked in more. If you look at a resting bird, their wings become almost invisible, as far as looking at the bird's outline goes. Their body is smooth and you can see the wing, but it doesn't stick out at all from the body. He should bounce more when he takes off. I don't know what you can do to make him appear to jump more... maybe bend legs down and have him look like he pushes himself up.

[Cyclone]

Thanks Phyreburnz. I folded the wings in a bit more. The reason I didn't before was limitations of the rig. So its not as good now as far as the way the feathers move with the mesh.

I also bent the legs more as you suggested and tried to make him appear to jump.

Is it better in this version? Thanks again.

Folded wings in more

Necky19(wingsfolded)b.png (828.59 KiB) Viewed 96126 times

Folded wings in more

Necky19(wingsfolded).png (558.32 KiB) Viewed 96126 times

[Phyreburnz]

Maybe these videos can help you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCb9-PKs8Gc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKAKfL48uSc

[sonosublime]

That looks awesome, Cyclone. Only thing I can really suggest is having the Necky's knees bend slightly before it takes off (and when it lands if you plan to do a landing animation).

[Qyzbud]

Yeah, he's looking great!

So far my main critiques are:

• The lighting looks a bit harsh. I remember giving similar feedback in regards to DK's fur in one of your renders way back when. If adjusting the lighting isn't the best option here, perhaps a similar workaround to what you ended up doing last time for DK's fur (which looked excellent!) would improve the appearance of the Necky's feathers?
• The animation looks a bit "stiff", or "mechanical"; I know this is a tricky thing to do (and it's probably still on your to-do list for the Necky animations), but working to give a more natural, flowing motion to his flapping wings — and some weighted motion to his body/head — would help complete the impression of a bird in flight. The knee-bending suggested by sono, and the avian take-off videos linked by Phyre are both good examples of the kind of effect I'm hoping to encourage here.

Apologies for my lack of activity/feedback; life is throwing a lot of distractions my way at the moment, but hopefully I'll have nothing but free time in a month or so. *crosses fingers*

[Cyclone]

I showed this to a friend and he said the neck is too stiff. How should the neck move, Any ideas?

Apologies for my lack of activity/feedback; life is throwing a lot of distractions my way at the moment, but hopefully I'll have nothing but free time in a month or so. *crosses fingers*

No need to apologize man. Anyone here who replies is kind enough to share their time for free and is much appreciated. Don't feel forced to critique even though I can be impatient.

@Phyreburnz thanks. thats really nice reference

[Super Luigi!]

I'm not sure about the neck. Perhaps Necky's head should move back and forth? As in, when he raises his wings, he should tuck his head in, and then stretch it out once he flaps. Either way, your "friend" complains about the neck, but doesn't offer any constructive criticism? What's up with that?

[Phyreburnz]

What Super Luigi! suggested is exactly what I was going to suggest as well! I definitely think his neck moving back and down before takeoff and then stretching out after the jump would improve the overall animation.

And Cyclone, it's looking beautiful! Wonderful improvements!

[VideoViking]

Stiff is not the right word, more like slow. Recall the Zinglets - Simion recommended changing the frame speed because it was too fast. Necky's neck seems to be a frame speed problem. I can see his neck moving up and down, but it's not noticeable to many of us.

[Cyclone]

I'm still going to go back to the neck but I am remodeling the cave t the moment.

CaveView1.png (1.9 MiB) Viewed 96038 times

CaveView2.png (1.94 MiB) Viewed 96038 times

[Qyzbud]

Cave's looking very nice! Are you thinking of trying to replicate the features of the in-game cave design, or are you going to take more liberties with the modeling? Either way could be fine, but a few familiar features might make the scene more nostalgic and memorable.

[Super Luigi!]

I like the new remodel. It makes the cave look scarier and realistic, don't you think? In my opinion, Diddy's face in your second screenshot says it all.

[Cyclone]

Here is an animated version of the new cave. Note it's only the one scene that shows the changes.

vid removed
ahg need to rerender.

Cave's looking very nice! Are you thinking of trying to replicate the features of the in-game cave design, or are you going to take more liberties with the modeling? Either way could be fine, but a few familiar features might make the scene more nostalgic and memorable.

I was going to take more liberties with the modeling. As long as the general colour scheme is like the in game art. However what details in particular do you suggest I add to make it more nostalgic? Also about the texturing. I want to make it more detailed but I'm not sure what it needs. More detailed varied bump mapping perhaps? mabye more colour variation. I used a pink colour already.

Here is a reference comparison.

EmptyHoard.gif (57.47 KiB) Viewed 96002 times

BG.png (38.64 KiB) Viewed 96002 times

BananaHoardScene.png (665.21 KiB) Viewed 96002 times

hmm after looking at those. My cave from the previous post lacks those vertical ridges. The pic above you can't see the background due to the lighting, but there are vertical ridges like the in game art.

I like the new remodel. It makes the cave look scarier and realistic, don't you think? In my opinion, Diddy's face in your second screenshot says it all.

Yea Diddy's face looks a bit bumpy and not very good from that angle. I new item for the to-do list...

[Cyclone]

Fixed the render of the cave with the revised shot.



And here is an update on Necky. I added more movement to the neck,feet and mouth. The overall animation is more animated now.

[Qyzbud]

These latest updates are looking very nice indeed; the extra detail in the cave looks great, and manages to add depth and interest to the scene without distorting the shadows beyond recognition — nicely done.

That Necky animation is an improvement across the board, too; I wonder, though, if the timing of his head movements needs to be adjusted slightly... something about the rhythm/balance doesn't quite mesh, but I'm not exactly sure why.

what details in particular do you suggest I add to make [the cave setting] more nostalgic?

I suppose the main thing I was thinking is that you could focus on adding more detail to the stalagmites, such as the subtle texturing/bump mapping details of the bulbous stalagmite just up and left from DK in your animated reference image.

Also about the texturing. I want to make it more detailed but I'm not sure what it needs.

Honestly, from a technical standpoint, I'm not sure either. I think bump mapping is a good method to start with, but it might be a matter of actually sculpting in more details and contours, etc., and perhaps actual textures onto the surface. Not sure what would suit the scene best, as my 3D scene building knowledge is rather limited.

Just have a play and see what looks good, I guess — that's how I usually do things.

[Cyclone]

Thanks for the critiques

More detailed cave and bump maps.

CaveView1b(LightingLighting).png (2.04 MiB) Viewed 95951 times

CaveView1b(dark).png (1.85 MiB) Viewed 95951 times

[Cyclone]

After looking at the renders I posted previously the cave was too glossy and too pink which made it look like Diddy was inside an alien beeing. Do you think?

CaveView1c(LightningLighting).png (1.97 MiB) Viewed 95930 times

CaveView1c(dark).png (1.77 MiB) Viewed 95930 times

[Cyclone]

I decided to redo the first shot of sequence more like the in game art. I think I'm going to redo the rest of the shots with the cave with this style of cave.

What do you guys think of this direction?

CaveShot1.png (2.12 MiB) Viewed 95915 times

[Cyclone]

A triple post and no comments. Hmm either you guys hate it or really like it. I wonder.
In any case I think these latest revisions make things more moody and atmospheric and cave like. I need to figure out how to up the resolution of the textures on the cave. I am painting the textures on using zbrush which stores colour data on each vertex. That means areas that are lower poly like the stalactites get less detail.

CaveView1d(Dark).png (1.88 MiB) Viewed 95885 times

CaveView1d(LightningLighting).png (2.07 MiB) Viewed 95885 times

[sonosublime]

Personally, I think the cave background needs to be a lot darker (the first shot is when there is no lightning flashing, correct)? This would make the cave a lot moodier and atmospheric, not to mention the lighting would be more realistic. But other than that, it's looking great!

[Cyclone]

Thanks Sonosublime.

So you think the first shot needs to be darker? I was trying to create depth by separating the foreground from the background and make it look more like the in game screenshot. That was the idea anyway.

[sonosublime]

Not so much the entire shot needs to be darker, as I think the foreground looks good. But the back wall should be much darker. I reckon your earlier shots with the background almost black looked fine, personally.

That said, the lighter background colour DOES look good - just not for the creepy stormy beginning scene. Perhaps use it for the scene the next morning when DK and Cranky are in the banana hoard.

[Cyclone]

Thanks for the good critiques.

Is this dark enough sonosublime?
I added more detailed geometry and bump maps to the scene and adjusted the lighting. I'm currently rendering out the animation sequence. It will take a few hours.

Shot1 (Dark - No Lightning)

CaveView0a.png (1.95 MiB) Viewed 95807 times

Shot2a (Dark - No Lightning) / (With Lightning)

CaveView2b(Dark).png (1.28 MiB) Viewed 95807 times

CaveView2b(LightningLighting).png (2.15 MiB) Viewed 95807 times

Shot2b (Dark - No Lightning) / (With Lightning)

CaveView1f(Dark).png (841.45 KiB) Viewed 95807 times

CaveView1f(lightningLighting).png (2.18 MiB) Viewed 95807 times

Still awaiting more feed back before I get too committed in the look. Anyone? Sorry if I'm becoming anoying with these updates and questions.

[Cyclone]

Just a shot showing the cave background lit a bit brighter for when in the script it's no long dark and rainy out side.

CaveView3a.png (1.89 MiB) Viewed 95807 times

[sonosublime]

It still looks too bright. A cave during a thunderstorm would be almost pitch-black. Granted, you need to allow the viewer to see something, which is why I think the original way you had the lighting (with the black backgrounds - before you started redoing the backgrounds) was almost perfect.

'Shot 1' is too light, especially if there is no lightning.

'Shot 2a' (no lightning) looks pretty good, apart from the light patch of ground in the front. But one would wonder where the light in the back of the cave is coming from.

'Shot 2a' (with lightning) is a bit too bright.

'Shot 2b' (no lightning) looks good.

'Shot 2b' (with lightning) is, again, a bit too bright.

'CaveView3a' looks great for the morning scene.

[Cyclone]

OK I made things darker. May not be dark enough. I wanted to keep the depth and interest instead of having everything black. But I'm still will to change it if you think it's still not right sonosublime.

Cave Remodeled and lighting adjustments.
The lighting on Diddy is not in time with the lighting flashes and needs to be fixed. Also Diddy has his eyes closed during the entire first shot. oops



Thanks again.

[sonosublime]

That's looking pretty good. The first shot where Diddy was looking at the cave entrance is a little light, but it's not too bad. Although I do think that, just for this stormy scene, the cave background should be black, or at least very dark, but having it visible during lightning flashes would look good.

Aside from those minor lighting issues, overall, the whole scene is looking very good.

[Cyclone]

I still may change it sonosublime but for now I'm moving on to something else to keep the project flowing. I will be working on the scene with DK and Cranky the next morning. As a test for Cranky's beard I did this. It's only a render test to see how his beard moves when he moves so ignore his arm and the stiffness of his body

[sonosublime]

Looking very neat! Although I think the beard looks a little... wispy/fluffy. Watching some Gandalf videos should give you an idea of how epic beards move

[Cyclone]

I was thinking just that. It is too wispy. I was just playing around. I wanted a "lively" beard. The problem with my animations is they aren't fluid and smooth. That's something that this project needs to be any good. Saying that, I'm more of a modeler then an animator if anything.

Here is the first shot in the sequence with Cranky. There may be too much head movement I don't know. But overall I thought it turned out decent. There are textures that need to be rez'ed up but that will be difficult. Also I will try to add little touches such as a gentle breeze on the curtains and swaying of the flowers, maybe add a flitter(it's not canon to DKC1 though) or squawks to the scene. With Squawks flying through the window landing on the top ceiling post or a blue flitter flying about the room and out the doorway or perhaps a small version of the zinger buzzing around the flowers and in DK's face. What's your preference. I was leaning towards the zinger. After all it's supposed to be a rude awakening for DK.

Input once again is appreciated .

[Super Luigi!]

I say, add some sort of Mini-Zinger. Have it fly and land onto the flowers when DK looks at them, shake like a bee/wasp does, and then fly out as quickly as it came in. As another idea, perhaps include a Gnawty running around the Treehouse for a while before scampering out the door to avoid Cranky. Or even include both!