DKC Atlas Forum

[aperson98]

Personally I like the Genesis/Megadrive more I do not know why really maybe it's because it has a charm I just did not feel with the Snes (ironically I owned a Snes before a Genesis/Megadrive) aside from the Big N's namesakes and Square's Rpgs I never got into any other Snes games, while with the Megadrive I loved most of the games in my collection, namely Golden Axe, Sonic 1,2,3,K, and Revenge of Shinobi. Anyone have a preference?

[DK4Ever]

I think I know what the answer to this'll be for most of the people here. I mean, these forums are based on a SNES series.

Anyway, for me, I will always love the SNes. I played Genesis, and I liked it. But a few things were off for me :

- I never really understood what was so interesting about the Sonic games. Flame me all you'd like, but I was never really able to get into the side-scrollers, try as I might.

- The Genesis' sound-card was vastly inferior to the Snes', (Playing a Power Rangers game on the Snes right next to one on the Genesis makes for an easy comparison)

All this said, I do own a Genesis and enjoyed it, but the SNES I've always felt was some sort of gaming masterpiece.

As you've said, Nintendo's flagship titles are the really memorable ones. (I mean, aren't the Sonic games the same way for the Genesis?)

A Link to the Past, the DKC Trilogy, Super Mario World, SMRPG, Kirby Super Star, Earthbound, Megaman X, all kinds of games that made up the SNES' lifespan, and that doesn't even cover the basics.

However, I'm not sure what your intent with the thread was so I'll stop listing games and just say I prefer the SNES and felt like it left a more lasting impression on gaming's history. I mean, if the Nintendo titles are good enough, is there really any need for others?

[FrankMorris]

I prefer the Genesis/MD too. 320x224 screen naturally looks better than 256x224.

Genesis does what Nintendon't. I hope I don't get slaughtered by saying that

[Kingizor]

I've always preferred my SNES. If anyone were to ask me which I preferred it would always be the SNES.

I've always felt the SNES experience lasts longer, perhaps because quite a lot of snes games featured saves, especially for some of the more epic titles. Whereas most Megadrive games I remember were for fun there and then.

The Megadrive had a good share of favourites, Ecco, Streets of Rage, Road Rash..

While the SNES had Street Fighter, Pilotwings, Secret of Mana, and I seem to remember a game (or games) with a pair of monkeys that was quite good...

I wouldn't trade my memories of both consoles for anything.

[Jomingo]

SNES was superior graphically and in software line-up. And in audio quality. But the Genesis had a few good gems. If it wasn't obvious I'd definitely pick the SNES over the Genesis any day, but I do like the Genesis a little bit. It's kinda like this: I like crappy free games on my cell phone, but I like DS games more. That's the best analogy I have for the Genesis/SNES.

[aperson98]

- The Genesis' sound-card was vastly inferior to the Snes', (Playing a Power Rangers game on the Snes right next to one on the Genesis makes for an easy comparison)

Sadly true the Genesis was really bad at making SFX especially for lightning booms and voices. (Though it's attachment the 32X could produce sound on par with the Snes)

I prefer the Genesis/MD too. 320x224 screen naturally looks better than 256x224.

Genesis does what Nintendon't. I hope I don't get slaughtered by saying that

Nice to know I'm not the only one.

SNES was superior graphically and in audio quality.

Not quite the Genesis does have a better screen resolution (resulting in crisper graphics) and faster clock speed then the Snes. However the Snes games simply look better because of the number of colors on screen it could have vs the Genesis, 64 colors on screen for the Genesis vs 256 for the Snes. While the Snes is still the overall winner in the graphics and audio department, it doesn't stomp all over the Genesis either.

[FrankMorris]

Agreed, Genesis/MD loses when it's about sound/colors, but here's little screenshot comparison, just to show why I think resolution is the most important graphical aspect: (Notice that the GFX starts from exactly same location; the bones on the left)

Lion King for Genesis/MD (320x224)


Lion King for SNES (256x224)


In Genesis it's easier to see where you're actually 'walking'. Incoming enemies comes visible earlier, so you have more time to react. etc.
When playing SNES you have to find 4:3 TV somewhere, otherwise everything gets distorted. Circles aren't circles anymore and so on.

Nice to know I'm not the only one.

I'm sure there's even more. I quess people just tend to keep their mouth shut in Nintendo related forum

Too bad Sega didn't have Rare at the time..

[Jomingo]

True, but TV's weren't good quality back then. What's the difference of having a wider resolution when your TV is square? AND 15 inches?

[FrankMorris]

I bet your TV ain't square. It was either 4:3 or 16:9. And inches doesn't really affect how 'much' you can see.

But allright I got your point, back in the days almost everyone got 4:3 TV's, so Genesis' advantage was kinda hidden.

[Jomingo]

By the way, I have moved this topic to Gaming Discussion, for obvious reasons. A shadow remains in Anything Goes, but clearly it belongs here.

[aperson98]

Quote Removed by Moderator

Well I tested what DKC2 would have looked like on the MD and 32x. *NOTE: may not be exact.

First the original Snes game.



What it would pretty much look like on Genesis.




And last but not least what it may look like on 32X.




Colors are kinda ugly but hey it still looks better then the MK2 port on MD.

[FrankMorris]

Nice illustrations there aperson98

It would've been interesting to saw how DKC trilogy had turned out in action on MD back in the day. Music/sounds would've been near awful, I know


by the way, I was investigating some MD games ported from other platforms, and I noticed that not every game uses the full 320x224. For example, Krusty's Fun House uses 256x224 in both platforms:

SNES: (256x224)


MD: (256x224. I quess, this is just a lazy made port from SNES)




Other ports just for comparison:

Amiga: (320x224. Winner. Too bad it only runs @50hz)


DOS: (320x200)


NES: (256x224)


SMS: (256x192)


GG: (160x144. Nice colors.)


GB: (160x144)

[aperson98]

Quote Removed by Moderator

Wow that game was made for the SMS and GG didn't know. I noticed something about the Lion King I failed to mention the first time around. In the Lion King when you are riding the ostrich in the second level (Can't wait to be king) you have more time to react and dodge stuff sitting in the trees on Genesis then on Snes. This makes the Snes version of the second level kinda frustrating. That being though some games should have just never have been ported to the Genesis like Mortal Kombat 2 it looks and sounds like crap. Snes all the way if you want a console port of MK 2

[CrankyMan]

Megadrive isn't as half as good as SNES. SNESW games excite me more than MegaDrive games.
Not Kidding.

[aperson98]

Geez Crankyman don't take it so seriously. I just wanted to see what system people liked more, not start a flame war over this. I know I may have said things in Genesis's favor but if there is one thing I wish the Genesis had it would be mode 7. I could name a bunch of Snes that use this, but this is the best example it's Aero the Acrobat's first bonus act.

Snes- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gJwksGVU8E

Genesis - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uLBzQo-jec

Also here is some youtube videos comparing the consoles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIFXgHoC ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=393rMTGRlPo

EDIT: Had to fix the link.

[Aaendi]

I honestly think Mode-7 was overused and gimmicky. I am actually more impressed by how the later day Genesis games faked Mode-7 effects by using tile-per-offset mode + line scrolling, or by having the CPU pre-rotate sprites into vram at the start of the level.

[SimianSegue]

SNES games just interest me much more than Genesis games. The only game on Genesis I can't stop playing is Sonic the Hedgehog 2. The games on SNES I can't stop playing are SMRPG, Earthbound, DKC on VC, Turtles in Time, and Super Smash T.V.

[Phyreburnz]

I've tried playing things on Genesis, but I just can't get into it. I grew up on the Super Nintendo. My boyfriend, on the other hand, grew up on Genesis. He doesn't like the Snes as much. He'll play the Snes, but I won't really play the genesis. I try, but I just can't, for some reason. It's almost like it feels wrong!

[Aaendi]

Which system do you think has the most annoying fanboys?

In my opinion Sega Genesis fanboys, because a lot of them pretend to be technical experts and will argue with you everytime you point out that they're wrong about something.

EDIT:
No offense to anybody here.

[aperson98]

@Aaendi Well to be fair some Snes fanboys are kinda the same. Some people just are more biased then others on game consoles in reality both the Snes and Genesis are not up to par with the mighty Amiga 1200, that system in technical terms beats the both of them to a plup

[Aaendi]

@Aaendi Well to be fair some Snes fanboys are kinda the same. Some people just are more biased then others on game consoles in reality both the Snes and Genesis are not up to par with the mighty Amiga 1200, that system in technical terms beats the both of them to a plup

I've been on a Sega Genesis fansite in the past and all the fanboyism on the website actually killed my interest in the Sega Genesis.

[aperson98]

@Aaendi Are you talking about the Sega16 forums by any chance?

[Aaendi]

Are you asking that because you've been there, or are you asking because your one of those people with way too much time on their hands tracking down every username change on every website I've been on just to bump up some embarrassing 4 year old post.

[aperson98]

Calm down Aaendi I'm only asking because I visited the Sega16 forums a while ago. I don't even have a clue at what forums (besides this one) you are registered at.

[Aaendi]

What a relief.

[aperson98]

Ahem.. now that this little misunderstanding is taken care of, I figured I would make a chart comparing the two consoles on what system did better on a certain genres.

-Genre- :Note this is based on opinion not fact.

Platforming - Snes
Action- Genesis
Rpgs-Snes
Fighting- Tie
Sports- Genesis
Movie/cartoon/Tv show based games - Genesis

Edit: Deleted some useless repeated stuff

[Aaendi]

Everybody already knows the technical specs by now.

[aperson98]

Sorry I fixed that now. I was a little absent minded when I made that post I'll admit

[Aaendi]

The reason why I freaked out earlier was because Sega-16 just so happened to be the website I was refering to, and it felt weird that you knew.

I got banned from that website just for being good at 65816 ASM.

[Simion32]

How incredibly racist. They must have been jealous or something. That kind of thing does not deserve a banning...

[Markster]

Yea that's retarded, what if I where good at sega programming, would you ban me off DKC-Atlas forums?

[Simion32]

No, I wouldn't. Honestly. A person having XYZ knowledge about topic ABC and (maybe) being proficient at it is no reason for you to be discriminated against.

[Aaendi]

Quote Removed by Moderator

Well I tested what DKC2 would have looked like on the MD and 32x. *NOTE: may not be exact.

First the original Snes game.



What it would pretty much look like on Genesis.




And last but not least what it may look like on 32X.




Colors are kinda ugly but hey it still looks better then the MK2 port on MD.

How did you gerate those images? I think the Genesis can do a little better color than that. How many colors did you use for the background and sprites? You can also use dithering in places that are not crowded by detail. In 256x224 mode dithering doesn't work very well, but in 320x224 mode it gets smoothed out thanks to NTSC chroma/luma decoding limitations.

[aperson98]

Well I just put them through Gimp, nothing special really.

[Simion32]

Comparing via image editors is inaccurate, because PC formats do not use the same layout or color depths as the real console. To get an accurate comparison you'd need to attempt to display the sprites and backgrounds on the real system.

Simple image "conversion" to make it use a given amount of colors will not work for this type of comparison stuff. SNES palettes (and I'd wager MegaDrive as well) are far more involved than just "image has X amount of different colors".

[aperson98]

Well I did use the real color table of the Megadrive when converting the images, so it's not totally inaccurate. I know it would be far more accurate to port some set images to a real Megadrive, but it would too much work for me to have to learn the ins and outs of MD hacking just to make a comparison image.

[Aaendi]

I just love how Nintendo kept boasting over the SNES's ability for being able to do stupid things like transparency and mosiac, like they actually were that useful in games.

A sort've unknown advantage the Genesis has over the SNES, is it's sprite system. Eventhough the SNES has a bigger maximum sprite size, it has less available sizes. The Genesis has 16 different available sprite sizes, whereas the SNES has 4 sprite sizes with only 2 available at once. The Genesis also has more memory devoted for sprite cells. The genesis has the entire 64kB available for sprite cells, whereas the SNES has 2 moveable 8kB banks of sprite cells.

[aperson98]

Check this out today I found what the Genesis sound system can do when pushed to it's fullest. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG1H_88V ... re=related
Wow just wow I didn't think the Genesis had the capabilty to do this!

[Aaendi]

Check this out today I found what the Genesis sound system can do when pushed to it's fullest. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG1H_88V ... re=related
Wow just wow I didn't think the Genesis had the capabilty to do this!

Too bad the song they chose was kind've lame.

[aperson98]

I found another thing regarding the PCM chip in the Genesis is that the past themes in Sonic CD uses the PCM chip instead of the Redbook audio and it sounds pretty good, this may have to do with the fact that the CD format has much more memory then a cart so the sound chip can be used to it's fullest.

[Aaendi]

The SNES's CPU was never pushed to it's full potential. If I was there back then, I would be able to program games like Gunstar Heroes and Thunder Force 4. Pushing a lot of enemies onscreen doesn't take that much CPU power, unlike most people would believe.

[aperson98]

I believe ya on that one If you don't program your game well, you will have bouts of slowdown regardless of how powerful the processor is. The GBA port of DKC2 is proof of that, as there is slowdown in Parrot Chute Panic which was not present in the Snes version even though the processor is much weaker then the GBA's. It's one of the many reasons I hate the GBA ports they were so badly done.

[Aaendi]

It scares me how some SNES games lag with only 4 enemies onscreen. Lagging with 20 enemies would be understandable, but 4 is just retarded. Did they use per-pixel collision as opposed to using collision boxes? Did they test collision with every individual background tile, as oppose to just the bg tiles that overlap the object? Did they use real time graphics decompression, as opposed to decompressing the game at startup?

Another thing that makes me face palm is when a graphical effect (such as the explosions in Super Metroid) causes the game to lag, just for being onscreen. The effect is always the same, with sprites poping up in the same exact pattern everytime. What is taking so long to calculate it? Wouldn't you think they'd be able to fix that one little effect?

Then there are games such as Super Castlevania 4, where your player character walks slow for no apparant reason. There was no technical reason why he couldn't have walked faster. They just set his walking speed to be very low.

Then there is Street Fighter Alpha, with the stupid graphics decompression chip. Just compare it to DKC which runs on stock hardware and doesn't have 7 seconds of loading. The Capcom's special chip was slower than the 65816 at it's own job.

[aperson98]

Capcom for some always had some problems porting/making makes on consoles in the 90's for some odd reason, a good example of this is TMNT turtles in time vs the Final fight games where as Komani made TMNT4 run very smoothly with 2 players without lag in 1992, Capcom couldn't do it with two players in late 1995 with FF3/Tough.

[Aaendi]

The Sega-16.com users actually believe the SNES's CPU takes 1/4 of a frame just write one sprite to the oam.

[Mr.Diddy]

Too bad Sega didn't have Rare at the time..

What are you talking about? Then DKC wouldn't exist!

I like Snes better though and agree with Jomingo because at the time, I didn't even know they made widescreen TV's.

It scares me how some SNES games lag with only 4 enemies onscreen

What are you talking about? that has never happened to me.

[Aaendi]

Too bad Sega didn't have Rare at the time..

What are you talking about? Then DKC wouldn't exist!

I like Snes better though and agree with Jomingo because at the time, I didn't even know they made widescreen TV's.

You don't need a widescreen TV. The Genesis has 320 pixels in the same horizontal legnth that the SNES has 256.

It scares me how some SNES games lag with only 4 enemies onscreen

What are you talking about? that has never happened to me.

"Star Wars: Empire Strikes Back" does.

[ShaneM]

To be fair, I'm listing the specs of both systems.

Sega Genesis/Megadrive

Code: Select all

                       [Genesis]
Lifespan:    1989-1995
CPU:    7.67 MHz 16/32-bit 680005
Co-Processors:    3.58 MHz Z80 (Audio/Master System)
Texas Instruments 76489 (PSG Audio):
4 Channels
Yamaha 2612 (FM Audio):
6 Channels:
One 8-bit Stereo Digital Audio Channel (DAC) replaces one FM channel
10 Audio Channels total
Audio RAM:    8KB
VIDEO:    VDP
Master System Compatibility
Hardware Shadow and Lighting
Direct Memory Access (DMA):
Transfer Rate: 7.2 KB per 1/60th second
 Resolutions:    256x224, 320x224, 320x448
RAM:    64 KB
Video RAM:    64 KB
Color RAM:    72 Bytes
VSRAM:    40 Bytes
Colors On Screen:    61 (30-75 in game, average 50)
Color Palette:    512
Sprite Max & Sizes:    80 sprites at 320x224
64 sprites at 256x224
Sprite Sizes:
8x8, 8x16, 8x24, 8x32
16x8, 16x16, 16x24, 16x32
24x8, 24x16, 24x24, 24x32
32x8, 32x16, 32x24, 32x32
Sprites per Scanline:    20 at 320x224, 16 at 256x224
Background Planes:    2 layers with 16 colors per 8x8 pixel tile
VDP handles scrolling as single planes, independently scrolling 8 line rows, and independently scrolling lines.
Each 8 line row can can be displayed over or under others.
Storage:    Cart 32 Megabit (4 MegaByte)
40Mbit Super Street Fighter 2
Avg: 4 Mbit ('89-'91), 8-24 Mbit ('92-'95)

Super Nintendo/Famicom

Code: Select all

                              [SNES]
Lifespan:    1991-1997
CPU:    3.58 MHz 16-bit 65c816
6502 Compatibility (unused)
Co-Processors:    SPC700 (Sound CPU)
S-DSP (Sound Generator)
8 Digital Audio Channels
Filters for audio smoothing and echo
Compressed audio decoding
Audio RAM:    64 KB
VIDEO:    PPU 1
PPU 2 (On the same chip)
Mozaic/Pixelation
DMA
Transfer Rate: 5.72 KB per 1/60th second shared by 8 Channels
HDMA
Used for per line updates
Resolution:    256x224, 256x448, 512x224, 512x448
RAM:    128 KB
Video RAM:    64 KB
Sprite RAM:    512 + 32 bytes
Color RAM:    512 Bytes
Colors On Screen:    240-256
(90-150 average in game)
Color Palette:    32,768
Sprite Max & Size:    128 sprites at:
8x8 & 16x16, 8x8 & 32x32, 8x8 & 64x64, 16x16 & 32x32, 16x16 & 64x64, 32x32 & 64x64, 16x32 & 32x64, 16x32 & 32x32
Sprites per Scanline:    32, 34 8x8 tiles, 256 sprite pixels per line
Background Planes:    Eight Modes Numbered 0 - 7
4 (96-colors, 24 per background, 3/tile)
3 (two 120-colors, one 24-colors)
2 (120-colors)
2 (240-colors, 120-colors)
2 (240-colors, 24-colors)
2 (120-colors, 24-colors, interlaced)
1 (120-colors, interlaced)
1 (255-color, scaled, rotated, etc)
 
Storage:    Cart 32 Mbit (4 MegaByte)
48 Mbit Star Ocean and Tales of Phantasia
Average: 8 Mbit ('91), 16-32 Mbit ('92-'97)

[Stone]

You may have already seen it, here is AVGN's view on this matter:

[Phyreburnz]

There is something that I've been wondering only somewhat recently...

Was Sega's "blast processing" really that impressive? The reason that I've only recently been thinking about this is because of the RetroGen. Gamester81 of YouTube recently reviewed it. It's a cartridge that fits into your SNES and allows you to play genesis/mega drive games through the SNES. It's pretty interesting. It won't work for every single genesis/mega drive game, but it works for a lot of them, including all of the Sonic games. The Sonic games were supposed to show the speed that the genesis/mega drive could handle...


So, I'm wondering if 1) this means that the "blast processing" really wasn't all that impressive, 2) Sega didn't use the full potential of the genesis/mega drive, or 3) there's something in that little converter cart that somehow speeds up the processing.

Does anybody have any thoughts on this?

Also, a recent James and Mike Mondays episode featured an unreleased NES game called "Bio Force Ape." Now, I haven't played it; all I've seen is the video of James and Mike playing it, but they seem to think that Bio Force Ape moves as fast as Sonic. I thought that was rather interesting, that the NES may have had a game with some of the game play as fast as Sonic.