DKC Atlas Forum

[Kowbrainz]

Obviously this is a topic that's going to be very hard to bring up on a DKC fansite without getting the same responses. Either way, I was looking through the article on Wikipedia the other day when I noticed a few links to some features on certain sites, where DKC had landed itself in the top 25 and top 10 most overrated games of all time.

Common complaints from the editors matched those you'll occasionally see from reviewers that dislike the game on GameFAQs etc. Generally there was a lot of agreement with Miyamoto's initial criticism of the game, in that it was all pretty graphics and no gameplay. There were complaints of slippery controls and weird physics. Generally there was a lot of comparing the series to games like Super Mario World and Yoshi's Island. Now, while both these games are good, I don't think the style of them should be the end all of platforming... you should have other branches of platforming which don't just copy the Mario formula. Oh whoops... there I go, wasn't meant to defend the game in the first post, haha.

It's all a bit similar to those annoying Nintendo fanboys who go on about Mario and even Sonic now being brilliant, and then when it comes to Donkey Kong Country, they'll reccommend you to download the games on the Virtual Console sometimes but will have no care for the game whatsoever. Then there's those Diddy Kong haters... but I won't get into them.

ANYWAY. Overrated? Anything in this game that you *might* be able to see as a bit overrated in some way or form? I know it might be hard, but just try and take off those DK fanboy hats for a little while and think what it may look like from the other person's perspective and just what might drive these sorts of claims. I'm not particularly sure just yet...

[Gnawzooka]

I wouldn't say it's ovverrated, I always preferred playing DKC to SMW.

[Rodent]

Nah, I don't think its overrated. It's a different game to Mario; if they're comparing the physics then thats silly. I think it feels more natural in DKC, but I'm probably biased.

[PotoGamer]

I've always played the DKC series because of its awesome gameplay. In fact, Back when I was younger (and didn't know much about videogames), I didn't really focus on the graphics, I didn't even know the graphics were a big deal!

Personally, I prefer it over SMW. Why? The game feels more natural, and it doesn't feel like it's all pixels. But that doesn't mean that I don't like SMW, I just think that the platforming genre shouldn't be always the same thing, it should be different, like Kowz said.

[Jomingo]

..... what might drive these sorts of claims.

Ignorance. Conformity. Lack of the ability to form your own opinion.

Basically these people haven't played these games in years(or ever), and thus (as most Nintendo fanboys do) they just follow what other people do or say and take it as the gospel. Myamoto was only ticked because people were bugging him to make the new Mario more like DKC. That's enough to frustrate anyone, because the two series are just too different to compare. The physics, gameplay, personality, pretty much every thing else is completely different. Of course die hard SMW fans are going to dislike DKC, because it's not made to be like SMW.

People give in to peer pressure too easily these days, and are too afraid to disagree. Anyone with half a brain would actually play the game and formulate their own opinion on it. And don't go into it expecting SMW because it's not supposed to be.

[gamer_boy997]

Are you kidding me? It think it's UNDERrated.

[Kiddy14]

Jomingo, you are absolutely right.

I've always thought Super Mario is what's overrated. If it's Mario, "OMG it haz 2 be awsme, lololol! mario pwnz yall".

Mario and DK are way too different. DK haters don't like it because of the awesome graphics, and because how fast it gained popularity being sold when the SNES was already old, reaching SMW even when it was packaged with the system just when it started selling.

Let's face it, the SNES started selling in 1990. DKC was sold in 1994, 4 years after SMW (remember it was packed-in with the SNES). And it became the 2nd best seller for the SNES console.

Many people also claim the DK series is lacking of a good "story", and how bananas were just a copy of the coins in the Mario series, having no real purpose. What's the purpose of the coins again? Oh yes, gaining lives. Duh...

Also, DK and Mario started together in the arcade "Donkey Kong". So the first game where Mario appeared was also the first game where DK/Cranky appeared.

[Kowbrainz]

I'm not just talking about Mario fanboys by the way.

Example of people thinking tis overrated: link

[DKCplayer]

People have different tastes. As Jomingo said, die hard SMW fans are going to dislike DKC, because it's not made to be like SMW.
Some say the physics in DKC are bad. Example: You pound the ground and bananas come out.

SMW has it's flaws too:

Why do mushrooms make you big?
Why do feathers give you a cape that allows you to fly?
How does a flower allow you to throw fireballs... without getting burnt?

Not all video game physics have to make sense.

[Kiddy14]

Cartoony-style games like those aren't always supposed to make sense

Yet people try to find "flaws" in the games as being un-realistic and stuff.
For example, "Rare copied Yoshi when making Animal Buddies". Yes, but there are a lot of abilities Buddies' have that Yoshi doesn't, like Squawks' flying, or Squitter's web-platforms.
DKC has a lot of innovative things. Like two simultaneous characters on-screen, each with different physics. There are hidden things on the ground, you hand-slap enemies and get bananas. Golden-Animal Tokens. You can cartwheel/roll through enemies. You can roll-jump. There are barrel cannons. Steel-Kegs which you can ride! And the list goes.
Of course, SMW has those net things which you can climb from behind and that, but why isn't that bad? Because the games are different!

If you're going to critic something, you aren't supposed to compare it to other games; if you do so it at least has to be games from the same franchise, like comparing Midtown Madness 2 with Midtown Madness 3. Is like if you compared Halo 3 with Yoshi's Island.
"Yoshi's Island is a great game, but Halo 3 surpasses it by most of it! The graphics are WAY MORE REALISTIC! The plot gets better everytime I pass a level. My overall critic is 4.5/10 because Halo 3 looks better."

[Gnawzooka]

If you ask me, Halo is a good example of an overrated game.

[Kowbrainz]

Some say the physics in DKC are bad. Example: You pound the ground and bananas come out.

SMW has it's flaws too:

Why do mushrooms make you big?
Why do feathers give you a cape that allows you to fly?
How does a flower allow you to throw fireballs... without getting burnt?

Not all video game physics have to make sense.

No, that's not what people are referring to by the physics at all. They mean how the game plays; how you run/jump through levels and how it feels when controlling the character.

Kiddy... they're both platformers. Don't use extremes and bring in Halo because that's completely different. These people are saying that, as platformers, Super Mario games are good, and that Donkey Kong Country is not so good. You've listed a lot of things that you believe make DKC fun, and while I agree with all of them they're probably not what these people are looking for in a platformer. I can almost see the view of these being a little tacked on to the gameplay, too; as if the platforming of DK and Diddy isnt enough on its own so Rare had to add in extra buddies and barrels and other 'gimmicks' if you will.



It's hurting me to say all this stuff, lol. I just have to try and get inside these people's heads.

[SLY JO]

Example of people thinking tis overrated: link

Lol! Read the other overrated games:
10. Halo - The first guy bagged it out because it was an FPS played with a controller and that the Campaign was boring. (What?!)

7. FF7 - Apparently cloud is boring, almost as boring as the storyline. (WHAT!?)

21. Morrowind - Apparently because he didn't have a good enough PC to run it smoothly, it was boring and a waste of $75. The story was also bad even though he didn't finish the game. (Wow, genius)

18. American McGee's Alice -

With the possible exceptions of Shigeru Miyamoto (who's too humble to do it) and Sid Meier, there isn't a designer in this industry who's good enough to put his name in front of the title of his game.

Now who's a fanboy of Miyamoto or Sid Meier?

[Jomingo]

I think that Minecarts and Barrels are probably the most innovative platformer mechanics in 2D platforming history. If anyone can name something more innovative and more copied through gaming history, then let me know.

[Rodent]

Barrels are like Koopa shells. They aren't really original in the sense that they're picked up and thrown, but the concept was expanded upon with ideas like kegs and TNT barrels.

Barrel cannons though, they're original and an excellent idea. :D

[SLY JO]

Roll jumping, awesome.
No stupid scrolling maps, awesome.
Swanky's Side Show and Quiz, awesome.
Animal buddies, awesome.
Backgrounds/foregrounds change during levels, awesome. (snow, lighting, etc.)

^Name another 2D platformer with those aspects before DKC.

[Kowbrainz]

I think that Minecarts and Barrels are probably the most innovative platformer mechanics in 2D platforming history. If anyone can name something more innovative and more copied through gaming history, then let me know.

Minecarts aren't a gameplay mechanic; they're used in gimmick levels to mix things up like how you'd have races in platform games or on-rails shooting/driving sections in games like Gears of War. Barrels, yes, to an extent... but it's certainly not something extremely innovative and it's not something that's been copied that much to be honest. I know they add to the gameplay, but they're not that innovative.

[Jomingo]

By barrels I meant Barrel Cannons.

Anyway, name one gimmick before DKC as innovative as minecarts or barrel cannons.

[Kowbrainz]

Gimmicks =/= Innovation.

FLUDD was a gimmick: it didnt really enable the platforming genre to go in any new directions, it simply allowed Mario to maneuver through levels more easily with the hover function while serving as a tool to clean up stuff. The gravity in Mario Galaxy was innovation: looking at the 3D platforming genre as a whole and wondering exactly what they could do to it.

Before Donkey Kong Country? If you're comparing to minecarts and barrels then there were plenty of objects and powerups in SMB3 and SMW which were used to add to the gameplay, but weren't necessarily innovative. There wasn't really that much innovation until the N64; games were classed under a few genres: simple shooter titles like Galaga or Raiden, side scrolling beat em ups or Platformers to name the main ones. Donkey Kong Country was a platformer with different physics and a few things used to mix up the gameplay (barrel cannons, animal buddies and minecarts like you say) which is something done frequently by designers who need to break the mould of a game that lasts a player a while before it is beaten. It isn't innovation.

[Jomingo]

Innovation and Gimmick can sometimes be used simultaneously. Innovation is just something that is unique and hasn't been done before. Barrel cannons were gimmicks, but they were also innovative in that nothing like it had ever been done before and it has been duplicated several times throughout gaming history.

Also, why bring this topic up now? Don't you realise that yesterday was DKC Day? This is a time for celebrating 14 years of this magnificent game, not questioning its awesomeness.

[Kowbrainz]

Again, something which hasn't been done before isn't necessarily innovation.
Please tell me how exactly these barrel cannons from DKC have shaped the rest of the games industry in terms of platform games. They've been a gimmick which has always been unique to Donkey Kong Country, and is essentially why Brawl added in the barrel cannon segments: because the developers knew that was a way to get people to remember DKC's gameplay if any. Give some examples of where this has been duplicated, because I'm failing to see any and I'm sure that if there were others then people wouldn't see the unique charm and tie it to DKC when playing through those barrel segments in Brawl.

Oh, and DKC isn't a game whose celebration should be limited to one day. I'm not going to hold up its wonder any more on one particular day than another even if that day was the one it was released. I love DKC, and you know that, but I'd like you to give some better points about why it is so great. Right now your argument is quite poor and I'm sure any respectful DKC-disliker wouldn't take too long at all to stamp that argument flat.

[DK4Ever]

Nah, I don't think its overrated. It's a different game to Mario; if they're comparing the physics then thats silly. I think it feels more natural in DKC, but I'm probably biased.

I have to agree with Rodent here.

And people agreeing with Miyamoto, are agreeing with him for the reason we disagree with him. We are fans of the game he dislikes, and they are fans of the game he created that was "challenged" by the game we love so dearly.

All pretty graphics eh? I love Super Mario World, but there was as much gameplay in DKC1 as there was in SMW. That's like saying Super Mario 64 is the gameplay compared to the graphics of Ocarina of Time...hmm... (Odd comparison I know, but it's roughly the same concept.

It's just pointless bickering, from my non-biased point of view.

from my biased, DKC fanatic PoV however.... BURN THE MONGRELS WHERE THEY STAND!!

Yeah....anyway...



Edit: Wait a minute.. Yesterday was DKC day? WELL WHY AREN'T WE CELEBRATIN'???

BANANA SHAKES ALL AROUND!!! WOOO!!!

[Kowbrainz]

All pretty graphics eh? I love Super Mario World, but there was as much gameplay in DKC1 as there was in SMW. That's like saying Super Mario 64 is the gameplay compared to the graphics of Ocarina of Time...hmm... (Odd comparison I know, but it's roughly the same concept.

Yeaah... Ocarina of Time had similar quality visuals to Super Mario 64, haha. The only games that really stood out visually on the N64 were also by Rare.
The only real gripe I can personally see about DKC's gameplay is that the game was too short. I think the secret bonuses were a really nice touch, though.

[Jomingo]

Well, I can see the complaint about it being too short(it's sequels certainly fixed that though), but I think that Super Mario World is too long. I've still never completed super Mario World. There are some people out there who don't want to spend 40+ hours on one video game. You might call them lazy, but some people are like that.

Anyway, I guess you could say that the Barrel Cannons and minecarts weren't "innovation", but calling them gimmicks makes it sound so negative. There were definately unique and new.

Oh, and the point of DKC Day isn't to keep DKC celebration "limited to one day", it's to create one day of unified celebration between an entire fanbase. It seems nobody really even knew that it existed, so next year(the big 15th anniversary) I'll have to get the word out.

Obviously I'm not trying to imply that we should only crack out DKC once a year.

Anyway, I should be having this argument with a DKC disliker, not a DKC "fan" whose stirring up trouble on my holy day just for the heck of it. Who cares if other people think its overrated? They can play their games, and I'll sit here and play DKC in piece. I don't need everyone to like something just so I can enjoy it.

[DK4Ever]

All pretty graphics eh? I love Super Mario World, but there was as much gameplay in DKC1 as there was in SMW. That's like saying Super Mario 64 is the gameplay compared to the graphics of Ocarina of Time...hmm... (Odd comparison I know, but it's roughly the same concept.

Yeaah... Ocarina of Time had similar quality visuals to Super Mario 64, haha. The only games that really stood out visually on the N64 were also by Rare.
The only real gripe I can personally see about DKC's gameplay is that the game was too short. I think the secret bonuses were a really nice touch, though.

OoT definitely had better visuals and effects!

So it was a bad comparison anyway, my apologies, but my semi-point still stands.

[Kowbrainz]

Anyway, I should be having this argument with a DKC disliker, not a DKC "fan" whose stirring up trouble on my holy day just for the heck of it. Who cares if other people think its overrated? They can play their games, and I'll sit here and play DKC in piece. I don't need everyone to like something just so I can enjoy it.

I made this topic over a week ago with the intention of trying to get into the heads of these people that mock the game, and to see why it might be considered overrated. To think that you would believe that I would be doing this to stir up a ruckus on a DKC fansite on the game's anniversary and question me as a fan is ridiculous. Again, I do not give a crap about whether these people prefer SMW because I will always prefer DKC, I just wanted to try and realise how the game could be considered overrated.

[Rodent]

Well, I can see the complaint about it being too short(it's sequels certainly fixed that though), but I think that Super Mario World is too long. I've still never completed super Mario World. There are some people out there who don't want to spend 40+ hours on one video game. You might call them lazy, but some people are like that.

You must be joking. The main problem with Nintendo now is that their games are too short. You're just looking for any fault with DKC, and trying to counter it with how it's addressed in SMW then saying DKC did it better. Don't be so biased, have an open mind.

The games are both really good. SMW is longer, and that's where it's superior for me. I don't care though, I still have more fun playing DKC because it has a better feel about it. The use of the graphics, sounds and music really enhanced the experience. The games have different physics too, but every game does.

[Gnawzooka]

You must be joking. The main problem with Nintendo now is that their games are too short.

That's not just nintendo, I find that with most games.

[Kowbrainz]

I dunno about you guys, but most games today are roughly twenty hours long each if you're expecting value for your money, and that isn't too long at all. Super Mario World was not that long, and neither was any game on the SNES except RPGs. DKC was significantly shorter.

SMW had a lot more levels and places to explore, whereas DKC didn't get past 40... believe the 101% breakdown was 1% from K.Rool, 61% from bonus levels and 39% from the remaining levels. Subtract the bosses from that and you have a mere 33 levels. I applaud DKC for what it did within these levels but you can't really say the game was long enough in all honesty.

Thankfully DKC2 remedied this issue, but instead you had Nintendo fans raving over not being able to play as Donkey Kong himself and whatnot.

[Cody]

I like it better than SMW for many non-biased reasons.

For one, Super Mario World's level designs got really old after a while. They're essentially the same levels with new puzzles...something that can't be said for DKC (I mean, all of the levels are different in certain ways, whereas a majority of SMW's levels contained the same things that other levels did).

DKC feels natural. I love the feel of bouncing off the Kremlings in order to fully advance in the levels... it just makes me really happy. SMW, on the other hand, feels rushed. I can't play it for more than a few levels without getting really bored...sadly. I don't know why, seeing as I love the other Mario platformer games.

[CaptainEddie]

Well, it may be a little overrated due to graphics and gameplay. I'm not saying the gameplay is bad, but it's just really hard. Imagine a little kid trying to get past Trick Track Trek. Everybody likes a challenge, but for the kids, which is the audience the game was aimed at, it's just too hard. And the story sucks. It leaves a good number of plotholes. But then again, so do most Rare games.

[Gnawzooka]

Where are there plot holes? It doesn't have enough of a complex plot to have plot holes does it?

[Rodent]

There's not a whole heap of plot to have holes in it...

1. K Rool stole the bananas. Go get them back!
2. K Rool kidnaped Donkey Kong. Go save him!
3. K Rool kidnapped Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong. Go save them!

[Kowbrainz]

I don't really care about the story to be honest, since most platforming games aren't trying to be ambitious with their storylines in the first place and you shouldn't be looking that far into them. Bowser stole the princess, you have to get her back. That's that. You're not supposed to think outside those lines, it's kept simple for a reason.

[gamer_boy997]

I think the "holes" CaptianEddie is talking about is:

1. HOW did King K. Rool steal the banana hoard?
2. HOW did Kaptain K. Rool kidnap Donkey Kong?
3. HOW did K. von Rooleinstein kidnap Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong?

[CaptainEddie]

Close, but no. What I'm saying is, even more so with the GBA games, at the end of DKC K.Rool orders everybody off his boat. Then Diddy takes Gangplank Galleon to get to Krocodile Isle. See? How did Diddy get Gangplank Galleon?

[Rodent]

He took Enguarde though.

[CaptainEddie]

He too Enguarde to Gangplank Galleon, though. Which he still should'nt have had.

[DKCplayer]

I feel pretty stupid about my last post now...
Anyway, that's a good point about Gangplank Galleon. He must of taken Enguarde. Either that or using Funky's Flights.