DKC Atlas Forum

[FefeRawft]

My return to DKC-Atlas after a few months?

Anyway, before I start freaking out, let me take you back about two months ago....

The last day of school, it's the morning, and I'm about to take my English final. I'm sitting around, just waiting for my test, thinking about going home and watching E3. I'm mostly concerned about the 3DS and Zelda Wii (Now named Skyward Sword). So, what does all this have to do with DKCR? At school, we do one week full of academics, and one full week of shop. My shop is Internet, and everyone in it (including me) are basically huge nerds with no life. A girl in my English class, and my shop turns to me, and said that Nintendo had announced DKC4. For the next 5 or so minutes, I'm sitting with my eyes wide open, not taking my test, and daydreaming about DKC4. I finally snapped out of it, and finished my test. I later went home and learned it's name, Donkey Kong Country Returns. Current mood: freaking excited.

Fastforward to the present....

I've begun to learn that this was too good to be true. Each day that passes I've been learning this games dirty little secrets. Now it's time for me to start my complaining.... I understand that there aren't many games that are still truly 2D, and normally I wouldn't mind 2.5D, if I hadn't seen something in the games trailer. New Super Mario Bros., and New Super Mario Bros. Wii, perfectly transitioned the old Mario 2D platformers into 2.5D, however I seriously have my doubts about DKCR being able to do this. I'm too lazy to find a video, partially because I'm naturally fat and lazy, and it's 5:24 AM and I never went to bed. Somewhere in the trailer, I saw something shocking, Donkey Kong shot himself into the background. I feel like if your not just going up and down, and side to side, than it doesn't feel at all like a platformer. Because of this, DKCR is not only going up and down and side to side, but forward and backward. Maybe it's just me, but I don't like how it looks.

Whew, all that for just one detail....

Next, no water levels! I guess they were removed because Retro thought they were "too slow," or something like that. Personally, I love water levels. Some of my favorite levels in the DKC Trilogy were DKC 2's water levels. Maybe it's just the excellent music, mazes, gimmicks, hidden walls, and riding Enguarde (Who I'm seriously going to miss, goodbye my favorite animal buddy!). I feel something will be missing without these, no more rivers on the map, no more lakes on the map, no more oceans on the map, and no more sunken pirate ships on the map. That leaves snow, caves, jungle, factory, desert (okay, maybe there is still a lot of options, but a lot are missing). So, no more holding on to the ropes to avoid the enemies below in the water, I guess it was too difficult for the little kiddies, and Nintendo NEEDED to dumb it down for them.

If you can't tell, I love water.

Another complaint, animal buddies. They haven't been announced yet, but with the absence of Kremlings (one of my next complaint), I'm beginning to doubt the return of animal buddies, or at least animal buddies from the original trilogy. If there were all new enemies, and all new animal buddies, I'm beginning to wonder, DK:JB 2? Under the name of a Donkey Kong Country? I don't want that to happen. Extended family also hasn't been announced, but I would hate to see Cranky and Funky (the only two I remember in all games) trashed, they have been there from the beginning, Cranky providing hints and (some) comic relief. And Funky, coming up with new ways to let you travel around the world map.

General Gameplay up next!

There appears to be some new HP system. So the little kids the series is being dumbed down for (I just loooove using this excuse for the things I hate about today's gaming ), have a second chance before losing a life. Only one Kong is playable (unless you do two player, which I believe is another way of promoting casual gaming, which I will explain some other time. It will all make sense then, if you think the way I do, but if you think the way any non-mentally insane person thinks, then you won't understand my opinion at all, I'm not saying I'm better than you, I'm saying my mind is probably 10x worse than you people ). I don't like the idea of only controlling DK in one player mode, I would prefer the "use monkey #1's abilities, slapping noise, monkey noise, use monkey #2's abilities."

Finally, no Kremlings. This also means, no K. Rool. No epic DK uppercut, no king, no captain, no mad scientist, and no odd golden chest. The Kremlings have been in the DKC games from the beginning, getting redesigns, new concepts, and all around ways to make them fresh and new in each game, while keeping essentially the same enemies in each game.



In the end, I probably still will buy DKCR, but no guarantees I will even like it. I made "DKC Trilogy" in bold in an earlier comment for a reason, this game will certainly not feel like a DKC, at least to me it won't, and I would prefer not to call it the DKC Quad- Four- Quadrol- whatever the word for a series of four is.... Rare, if you're out there listening, please come back to Nintendo, the place where you belong. DKC will never feel the same without you!

Edit: I must really be mad, I started thinking about what to say at 5:00, and now it's 5:59, I typed out pure anger for a whole hour. Damn. My post is huge!

[BlueTronic]

The Kremlings thing is understandable, but you don't even know there's going to be no water or animal buddies. They likely just didn't show them in the video.

[FefeRawft]

The no water levels thing was confirmed, I'm just guessing that there either won't be animal buddies, or at least any old ones. Of course, I could be completely wrong.

[Jomingo]

There are no Water levels. That doesn't mean the game won't have water. I'm sure the maps are full of rivers and lakes. They already showed Poppin' Planks, which is full of water. You just can't go "underwater".

Also, I guarantee there WILL be Animal Buddies and Kong Helpers, and not just new ones.

The 2.5D gameplay is a natural progression of DKC's vibrant psuedo-3D worlds, and the heart system is only there to make Co-op possible.

Finally, Co-op could be the best feature they'll ever implement, and is something that I guarantee Rare would've done if they kept with the series. The entire point of DKC was the two players, DK and Diddy, and I loved playing two player team back in the day. It was the best feature of the game. Now, they're making it so you can play with 2 people simultaneous, and both iconic heroes can run around at the same time. How is that not a natural progression of DKC's gameplay?

Oh, and all the stuff about "dumbing it down for today's kids" is wrong. They've made the game very hard and for hardcore platformer connoisseurs. Sure, the co-op makes it possible for a less experience player to join in and have a bit of a handicap, but basically the point there making is that the person who buys the game is a hardcore player who loves platformers, but he might just want to have his little brother, or SON join in with him without having a gigantic learning curve to throw him off compared to your years of experience. I played DKC teams with my dad since I was in diapers, and if there had been a function that let my dad sort of babysit me through it without me losing all of my lives.

Also, although there are some funny options on the poll, the amount of choices is pretty off. It basically has like 1 option for agreeing with you, and like 3 or 4 for disagreeing, splitting the vote. It's difficult to choose the option that best describes my opinion.

[Tiptup Jr.]

I voted "Kinda agree, on some things". I obviously miss the Kremlings and am sad to see water levels go, but it's like my parents' divorce: Just repress everything until you stop cutting yourself, then pretend to enjoy life. (replace "everything" with K. Rool, and "life" with DKCR. I'm funny.)

[Jomingo]

I'm fairly certain you won't have to "pretend" to enjoy DKCR. It's going to be incredibly good and you will enjoy it.

[Tiptup Jr.]

Meh, no. Retro's getting a little too bitchy with this one. Apparently we don't NEED Kremlings, and it's 100% Lanky-free, and Enguarde has wings, and we didn't take inspiration from DK64 yet Diddy still has his rocketbarrels and peanut popguns. They're purposefully catering to casuals while making it seem like they're catering to us- motion controls and no Classic Controller support. Come on.

Spoiler!

And... I've never really cut myself. Kay.

[FefeRawft]

They're purposefully catering to casuals while making it seem like they're catering to us- motion controls and no Classic Controller support. Come on.

Finally, some who feels like I do

[Scraps69]

Tiptup keeps changing his mind in each post/edit.

[DK4Ever]

Yeah, he does. Tiptup, c'mon bro, be cool.

Here's the deal. I knew exactly what I was going to find when I clicked on this thread. Alot of complaints that currently hold no ground. (For the most part.)

I don't mean to sound obnoxious, it's 4:30 AM, and I'm a little bit tired, but something needs to be said. I just read that entire post, and felt like almost all of it was unfounded complaints based on hearsay or fear. Most of what was stated you have no idea if it's true or not, and you even said yourself you didn't care to find a video.

One of the things that got me was this:

I made "DKC Trilogy" in bold in an earlier comment for a reason, this game will certainly not feel like a DKC, at least to me it won't

Why won't it? How much of the game have we seen? We've seen a couple videos (Most of us have anyway) and a few snazzy-yet-unfinished screenshots. We also know quite a bit about the development team, and Retro's connection to the DKC Trilogy. You really want to say it isn't going to feel like a DKC game when we know almost nothing but things that make it seem like it'll certainly be a DKC game?

No underwater levels doesn't mean no water. We've seen Beach levels, the Octopus with water around in places, and other water. Maybe you can't swim in it, but it's there. (Hell, maybe you can at points, or maybe that's where Enguarde'll come in)

They've confirmed characters we know. (Or something like that.) If you really think Retro Studios won't add that nostalgic element to the game, by putting in old characters, homages to Kremlings or K. Rool (IF they truly aren't in in some form) or anything like that, you don't know Retro Studios or their work with the Metroid Prime series.

I really hate snap-judgements, and that's all I saw in this post. I really would recommend having patience. We know little. When Tiptup wasn't upset about this, he said "I've been waiting for this game my whole life" and he's right. (Well, I was alive when DKC came out, but I was only 3) It's been 14 long years. It's a DKC game. Something that can really be called a DKC game.

Before you know everything, the only thing I'd say at this point you can do is be happy.

Cheers.

[Tiptup Jr.]

Tiptup keeps changing his mind in each post/edit.

Hahaha, okay. I apologize.

It's just that my opinions on this game literally vary all the time. But for now I'm gonna stick with what I said up there, and I disagree that my complaints hold no ground. Sonic the Hedgehog 4 is gonna have Badniks and Robotnik, New Super Mario Bros. Wii has Bowser, Koopas, etc.- I don't get why Donkey Kong Country Returns can't have any RETURNing villains. I really don't. Someone please explain it to me, because I would love to hear it.

EDIT: I think it's safe to assume I'm bipolar.

[Scraps69]

I don't get why Donkey Kong Country Returns can't have any RETURNing villains. I really don't. Someone please explain it to me, because I would love to hear it.

There is no spoon.

[Jomingo]

Sonic the Hedgehog 4 pisses off more Sonic fans than ever. It proves you can't just rehash the same enemies and environments and have a good product (and it also proves you can't please Sonic fans, but I digress).

I agree that at least at this point in time, none of the arguments I've heard against this game hold any ground whatsoever, because we know almost nothing of the finished product.

How exactly are they catering to casuals? You can't use Classic controller, but you can use the Wii mote sideways, which is more than most other games can say. Why would you complain when a game uses a control scheme that the system was designed for? How much sense does it make to complain that a WII GAME uses MOTION CONTROL. That doesn't mean the game is full of balloon popping mini-games. It's just a different control scheme to a hardcore game, how does that make it casual? How many games actually USE the Classic controller? I'd rather they make a good control scheme for the controller that EVERYBODY has than spend time making the game compatible with a controller that FEW people have. Sure, I admit it would be sweet to play this game with the Gold Classic Controller Pro I'm getting with Goldeneye, but that doesn't mean this game has gone all casual and mushy.

You guys aren't complaining about legitimate problems, you are complaining about things that you don't even know are problems yet. We haven't seen enough of the game to have complaints, seriously.

Lastly, HOW CAN ANYBODY BE UPSET BY THE GORRAM LANKY JOKE? SERIOUSLY?! They get asked the predictable question of whether there are other Kongs in the game, and because they don't want to give it away yet they jokingly confirm Lanky's absence, which NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN QUESTION. Who would have ever seriously considered Lanky Kong a possible character in a DKC game? He serves no purpose whatsoever! Yeah, he's my favorite DK64 Kong, but he doesn't fit in the game at all and it never should have crossed anybody's mind that, "they better have Lanky Kong in this game or I'll be disappointed."
It was a very CLEAR joke that was used to confirm Cranky Kong. Nobody realizes this. They ignore how clear they made it that Cranky Kong would be in, but they look straight at the exclusion of Lanky Kong as if it's a deal breaker. WTF?!?!?!?!?

If you are upset by the lack of Lanky than none of your other opinions could possibly ever hold water because it's the worst argument in the history of Donkey Kong arguments. You are intent on not liking this game, clearly.

[Phyreburnz]

I really think that they shouldn't have called it "Donkey Kong COUNTRY" because it's not donkey kong country. It just isn't. Like how DK 64 isn't DKC, ya know? I mean, sure it's a side-scrolling platformer, but maybe Donkey's Kong Country or Donkey Kong's Country, or something different, but not the current title. It just won't have the same feel without the Kremlings. Understandably, they can't use them, but they could make something similar to them, like maybe have Mrs. K. Rool as the boss. Rare never made Mrs. K. Rool, maybe she could've had some other kind of other army.

If I were going to make a sequel to the DKC's, I think the next place they should be is in outer space, or something like that. Think about it, first in the jungle in Africa, second on a pirate island, and (although the third isn't really like the others) the third is in what appears to be some kind of either English or American forest. Well, those are just my thoughts on what the game maybe should be like, instead of how it appears.

Honestly, I'm not going to but this, at least not for a few years. I can read reviews and such and wait. But as I currently am, I always wait until two systems are out to buy one (ex: N64 is at it's all-time low right now because the Gamecube and Wii are out now and ps1 is at it's all-time low because of ps2 and 3. Snes is starting to go upwards in price because it's now retro [or something]).

[DK4Ever]

Good lord. Let's get this straight here. You can't say something is or isn't something if you haven't seen the full product or tested it for yourself yet.

You cannot say, by any stretch of the imagination that this isn't a DKC game. It carries the name, which is all it needs to do at te current time. What did I say in my post about hear-say? Oh yeah..

Hear-say is misleading, I mean, look what it's done to most of you in this thread. Even you, Tiptup.

There are many things we don't know for sure. We don't know about Animal Buddies (They're likely), we don't know about what other helper Kongs will be in. (I'm assuming most of them.) and we don't know about the Kremlings. No, I don't care what you say you've heard, we haven't heard the line "There are no Kremlings in this game" so we don't know for sure if they aren't in it.

Whether they are or not is of no consequence. My point is not to judge this game simply because of fears. It's ridiculous. Ridiculous!

[Phyreburnz]

There are definitely no Kremlings, http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=127283 (use ctrl+f and type in crocodile) Retro is NOT having Kremlings.

[DK4Ever]

I've seen that...

I meant specifically "Kremlings". They've never used the word Kremlings in such a way; and until they do, it can be assumed that there's some kind of inside joke within the company. Or not. It doesn't matter until we know the facts.

My point is, you all need to stop assuming things.

[Phyreburnz]

http://wii.ign.com/articles/110/1107723p1.html

This is what Ign KNOWS about the game.

[Tiptup Jr.]

Good lord. Let's get this straight here. You can't say something is or isn't something if you haven't seen the full product or tested it for yourself yet.

Yes, you can. In fact, that's ridiculous. I've seen enough gameplay, videos, interviews, first impressions, etc. to form a legitimate opinion about this game. I've stated that opinion, and now I'm done arguing about it. You simply cannot sit there and defend this game with all these facts in front of us... I don't wanna say "Jungle Beat with Diddy", but. You get the point.

[DK4Ever]

Yeah, y'know, it's not really official, or made up of "knowledge". That article is made of up basic understanding or general assumptions of the same kind I'm seeing here.

Note that in the article, the writer said : "If you've watched any of the videos of Donkey Kong Country Returns, you'll also know that the Kremlings – including King K. Rool - are out."

Basically, he's assuming that you've got the same assumption. He/she doesn't have facts, they have ideas based on current knowledge, and an unfortunate bias. (Note he goes on to call them ugly anthropomorphic crocodiles. True as it may be, it isn't very flattering, so he obviously doesn't like them, so he's likely to assume they're gone because that's what he's hoping.

That article didn't have any sort of confirmation from a Retro employee. It was alot like an editorial column. Still I say, patience and less assumptions all around is helpful.

Positive speculation is helpful on forums such as this

[Kingizor]

Right, enough of the negatives everybody!

I've just read the article mentioned above, and while most of it drones on about what is and isn't (the guy who wrote it must have been a mario fan... ) this quote caught my eye:

"the gameplay of side-scrolling games is very simple and straightforward, and easy to understand. The more complex that games get, obviously the more demanding they are on people's gaming skills. I think that what's so appealing about the side-scrolling games is just the fact that they're so simple and so engaging, and you can play them very quickly, and pick up the controller and start playing."

Apparently said by Shigeru Miyamoto at E3. This has just lifted my heart, because this is exactly what makes me love the SNES trilogy so much. Practically anytime of day, no matter what I'm doing, I'll stop and say, "right, I'm going to play Donkey Kong". This quote is exactly what these games mean to me, and if DKCR has the same heart and soul, I'm happy.

[DK4Ever]

For shame, Tiptup.

At first you liked it then you liked it then you hated it. You've seen all sorts of things, but those can ALL be considered beta footage as well as impressions. They also don't have to reflect the final product (barring actual content) in any way. And even actual content is flexible. I can defend it because, well, it's too early to hate something until you've tried the whole thing for yourself.

Snap-judgements. They're nasty. I know what I'VE seen. I've seen a side-scrolling, non-Jungle Beat DKC game. It has Diddy, it also has Mine Carts, Kong Letters, Secrets, I'm assuming Life Balloons, and an iconic soundtrack.

Maybe there are things you like about it, maybe you hate the entire article. Honestly, I think that's a shame. You haven't even played it yet.


Also, that's an excellent find, Kingizor. Cheers!

[Tiptup Jr.]

What article? I was talking about the whole damn game, actually.

[Jomingo]

Seriously, you can't say "I've seen enough of this game to formulate an opinion" when all we've seen are 3 levels and a boss! How can you say this is Jungle Beat with Diddy? If any of you people had any sort of skill in "reading between the lines", you'd have no doubt in your minds that there will be Kong helpers and Animal buddies. They flat out confirmed a World map too. The IGN article is all bull, all they talk about is how much they hate the DKC Kongs and Kremlings.

"The whole damn game"? What game, the three levels we saw? That's the whole damn game you're basing your opinion off? Seriously you people piss me off beyond belief. How can any fanbase be this obnoxious about the one game that's clearly what they've been clamoring for. You probably loved Super Mario Galaxy 2 and New Super Mario Bros. Wii too.

[FrankMorris]

I'm sure Retro Studios will really break the mold once again like they did with Metroid series year 2001.

[DK4Ever]

What article? I was talking about the whole damn game, actually.

Yeah. So was I.

Article –noun : an individual object, member, or portion of a class; an item or particular: an article of food; articles of clothing.

Well, at least Jomingo's thinking along the same lines. I'm really surprised how many of you guys are so upsettingly paranoid about this. I've SEEN nothing but good things.

As for things I've heard or read, those are false until presented by a respectable source. (i.e. the mouth of Miyamoto, or a Retro developter). Some random jerk on IGN writing an editorial-style article, or hands-on accounts from random folks at E3 (Like the Angry Video Game Nerd) are worth absolutely nothing at this point.

BUT ANYWAY. I think we should discuss something else. Here's a new one. Will Funky Kong still be the taxi service, or will he be given a different/bigger role?

As far as I'm concerned, positive speculation is the best thing for a forum. Anybody who was on SWF prior to Brawl's release should know that...well, maybe I was the only one, but yeah.

[Scraps69]

Play DKC Reloaded if it bothers you guys too much as well.

[Jomingo]

If we're to discuss the roles of kong helpers or other random details it should be given it's own topic or (better yet) go to the official DKCR topic. This topic is (as much as I disagree) for discussing the negative opinion of DKCR, and for arguing about it because it's wrong and it's been formulated based on the lack of details rather than actual details.

Anyway, anyone who's written the game off this early is going to be disappointed (or just admit they're wrong and get the game, and love it), because we've not seen nearly enough yet for someone to decide not to buy it. DK4ever and I know whats up though and we'll be hanging out with Cranky and Rambi this Holiday season telling you guys how much you're missing out.

[DK4Ever]

Amen to that, sir.

I think I might just go make a topic for speculation about the Kong Helpers (Positive speculation that is.) If it has it's own topic discussion will be limited to that, if it's in the main forum other unrelated things might pop up during such discussion, and hey let's face it, the DKCR forum needs more topics. Away I go!

[Simion32]

As has been brought up several times by Jomingo and DK4Ever, there isn't enough known information on DKCR to formulate an honest, non-paranoid opinion that actually has any backing.

This topic is going nowhere fast, and if it keeps going it's just going to turn into another flame war over nothing. Case Closed.

*LOCK*

[Jomingo]

I spose this is for the best. I don't want to stop anyone from voicing their opinions, but with the little information we have to go off it does seem a bit useless at this point. Lets save the flamewar after there's been more extensive coverage of the game.