DKC Atlas Forum

[Simion32]

Huh? I may sound even more like a noob, but did you make that combo without cheating? I don't even know what the "Six Stop n' Swop bananas" are, please explain everything!

He was only kidding. In other words, it's not possible. The "Six Stop N Swop Bananas" do not even exist. Tiptup just used a reference to something in the Banjo series that lots of noobs make pointless fake theories about.

[gamer_boy997]

Huh? I may sound even more like a noob, but did you make that combo without cheating? I don't even know what the "Six Stop n' Swop bananas" are, please explain everything!

He was only kidding. In other words, it's not possible. The "Six Stop N Swop Bananas" do not even exist. Tiptup just used a reference to something in the Banjo series that lots of noobs make pointless fake theories about.

Sorry, I'm not a 100% DKC fan, so I obviously misunderstood. I was getting curious for a minute, "wow, can you really do DK and Kiddy together?". Anyways, thanks for clearing it up.

[Jomingo]

Yeah, he was just poking fun at the "stop N swap" feature that was supposed to be in Banjo Kazooie. Google it to find out all you need to know.

[Tiptup Jr.]

Wow, I didn't mean to rise false hope there. I thought everyone would get the joke.

[gamer_boy997]

Sorry that I didn't get it. I have rarely even played Banjo Kazooie, the farthest I remember getting was a little after beating the first boss.

EDIT: I have a lot of quetsions. How much do you need the ROM for? Do you need it to create levels, play the levels on the computer, or play the levels on the SNES? Also, I tried downloading Demo #2, and the Delta, but it says it needs to find the program that created it, what is the program? If I know, I can just type the program in.

[gamer_boy997]

Ugh... I can't run any of these, it just opens another tab and asks if I would like to run it again, is this a RAR/ZIP problem?

EDIT: I can open Demo #1, but if that requires RAR to extract, shouldn't the other ones work?

[Simion32]

What on earth....?

Post a screenshot. I have no clue what you're talking about.

[gamer_boy997]

Nevermind, I got the latest demo to open, but when I click on the resource editor, it says, "Waiting for user input...", and when I click on the game engine, it says, "You need to exatract with the ROM first! DELTA will now close." How do I solve this?

[Simion32]

In the Resource Editor, go to the menu "Extract > Graphics" and let it extract data from a DKC v1.0 ROM. It's like I told you via PM earlier.

Every update beyond and including this one will require a ROM to operate correctly.

EDIT: In the next update, it will semi-automatically do this for you, if you haven't already. That should make it a bit easier.

[gamer_boy997]

Rats! I don't have a ROM!

[Goe]

i have downloaded the new demo today and extracted the DKC data...i see i can't modify the game with that demo...i must be patient then.

Ah....i see is a engine for DKC only...i hope you add the option of use DKC2 and DKC3 data

[Simion32]

Yeah... I do want to get this done at a reasonable pace, but it's not going to be just a throw-together-the-basics-and-it's-done project. I take my time when I need to, and make sure everything's the way it should be.

DKC2 and DKC3 will probably be editable in the Level Builder before they will in the Resource Editor, because of DKC2's compression (a post with more information regarding DKC2's compression can be found by clicking here). I think DKC3 may be similar.

By the way, for those who may be confused about it; let me explain:

• The Delta Game Engine will be used in combination with the DKC Level Builder, and will be able to combine data from all 3 games in the DKC Trilogy.
• The DKC Resource Editor will be required initially for the Delta Game Engine to operate. And...
• the DKCRE is also a standalone ROM editor which will edit the ROM for each game in the DKC Trilogy individually.
• The ROM-editing functions of the DKC Resource Editor are not top-priority, but the resource extraction functions are.

[Gnawzooka]

My brain hurts. I just read this entire topic. But I really like this idea, I'm glad that there will one day (hopefully soon) be able to get something like this. By the way, I think i know the answer, but will it be possible for other people to play levels you have created somehow?

[Simion32]

Yes it will, that can be done by sharing the relevant file(s).

The DKCLB website will be a place to trade your levels, once it's up and running. Which might be a while.

[Cosmicman]

It has been almost 2 months since the last post. Updates please?

[Simion32]

Sorry for the lack of DKCLB updates, the DKCRE has taken priority for the moment. Don't worry, the development of the DKCRE is essential for the DKCLB to work the way it's supposed to. Think of the DKCRE as a "section" of the DKCLB project.

But, I do have something for you all... a new logo I designed specifically for YouTube videos:

The newest promition logo for DKCLB... enjoy! (This also makes a great desktop background.)

Donkey Kong Country Level Builder VideoLogo Edit.PNG (110.02 KiB) Viewed 172486 times

[Tiptup Jr.]

...Oh my goodness, that takes me back. Can't wait!

[Gnawzooka]

Out of interest Simion, what ISN'T in that picture?

[gamer_boy997]

He's missing lots of things, he's missing all the animal buddies, almost all the baddies, half the bosses, lots of the backrounds, Candy Kong, many barrels, and much more.

[Simion32]

I don't think I could fit all the bosses in...

That picture was preliminary, I still need to make the "LEVEL BUILDER" text brighter because it wouldn't be as easy to see in a YT video. I also would like to cram in as many details as possible. In that case, I should throw in a few barrel cannons, a zinger or two, and some bananas to fill the space in the upper half of the picture. I'll also add an upside-down Mini-Drum spitting gnawty(s), as a beta "easter-egg" element.

[Gnawzooka]

He's missing lots of things, he's missing all the animal buddies, almost all the baddies, half the bosses, lots of the backrounds, Candy Kong, many barrels, and much more.

I was making a joke. But there is certainly quite alot there.

[Tiptup Jr.]

My punk-ass little brother just told me this project looked like it sucked and that being about Donkey Kong Country makes it suck more.

...He's the Antichrist.

[BlueTronic]

Ugh. I know how you feel.

[Simion32]

Since I got the bit-wise file access stuff working a few days ago, I've made some more (albeit technical) progress on the engine. I have gotten a bare-bones level file generator built into the DKCRE, and that allowed me to do the reverse: I have now built a level file loader into DELTA.

So far it's able to load the music and tileset, and can display any spot in the level. It doesn't have multiple layers yet, though. Unlike the last version where I threw together some code to get the other background/foreground in, this time I'll be constructing them as true layers so that it can work with all levels.
--------------------------------
While this may not sound like particularly exciting news, I have fixed the error which would cause a crash if you switch between the Engine and Startup Screen mode continuously (mentioned by Qyzbud here).

It turns out that error was due to something screwy with one of my level-display classes (although I never actually bothered to check what exactly was causing it), so I ended up re-doing most of the level-loader code apart from the display algorithm. Not only is that fixed, but now my classes are much more organized .
--------------------------------
If you are getting random crashes for absolutely no reason, I have found one culprit: When running delta with Data Execution Prevention on for all programs, you may get random crashes. This will most likely apply to all versions of DELTA and DKCRE.

[edevore]

@simion32

Your utility extractor is very useful but it would be really nice if it had full extraction support for example sprites,audio,tiles,backgrounds,ect... Would this be possible in future plans/releases?

Thanks,
Evin DeVore
(AKA: EWG)

[Simion32]

it would be really nice if it had full extraction support for example sprites,audio,tiles,backgrounds,ect... Would this be possible in future plans/releases?

It will, as I plan to include everything (even sound effects and/or music once I know the sound's data format). It's just incomplete at the moment and doesn't include everything (such as, the latest release does not include all of the backgrounds, only 32x32 tiled ones). Sprite extraction will be in the next version, as will more backgrounds.

Eventually, the DKCRE will be a fully functional ROM-editor with sprite support, data extraction capabilities, and the ability to generate DKCLB-formatted levels from an original DKC ROM.

Please note that the DKC Resource Editor will also include DKC2 and DKC3 once more information becomes available.

[edevore]

Thanks "Simion32" for that update,
I am very excited that this project is coming along nicely,
I can't wait until its finished, Great Job!

[Cosmicman]

A new demo would stop me from visiting this thread 10 times a day . Well, it won't stop me from visiting but it will bring down the visits from 10 to 5 times at least.

[Simion32]

A new demo is in the works; just today I got the level-loading and display code up to the quality of the last demo, with a few extra things added. Mainly, the camera is prevented from going out-of-bounds based on the level's dimensions, not a preset number. Also, the camera's position variables have been adapted to DKC's strange co-ordinate format (also used by the physics to an extent), which involves using a byte as a "decimal" part of the number. You end up with co-ordinates like 0A3B.FD and the camera gets displayed at whatever the position is without the decimal byte.

One thing that I'm trying to figure out is the banana group format, because I want the next demo to have bananas. It's surprisingly more confusing than I thought, though it's manageable. No one has documented this format so I'm in the process of documenting it.

Once the banana group format is fully understood, I will then be able to extract them to more "organized" proprietary DKCLB-formatted files. Which I will then be able to create loading code for.

As you can see, DELTA is going to start heavily relying on the DKCRE to work. But the good news is that the project will really speed up during this "DKCLB Level File" development, since I have some experience with this kind of thing and it's not as difficult to code either. The only expected slowdowns/delays will be things that need to be hacked (like the banana group format).

[edevore]

No one has documented this format so I'm in the process of documenting it.

Are you going to release your documents?

Did you know that "giangurgolo" made his own research of "DKC 1" public at:


Spoiler!
http://giangurgolo.home.att.net/dkc

[cfh]

cfhworld (10:19:51 PM): doesnt that guy who ripped the tiles also have something to do with the banana code
"Simion32" (10:20:02 PM): only their layout in levels
"Simion32" (10:20:33 PM): i mean where the banana groups go in levels
"Simion32" (10:20:42 PM): this format is the banana groups themselves

[Simion32]

Thanks for clarifying that, CFH.

Are you going to release your documents?

Certainly.

Did you know that "giangurgolo" made his own research of "DKC 1" public?

Yes, that's where I got most of the data on DKC. However I'll be mostly on my own with the next two games.

EDIT: Elaborating on those camera co-ordinates; what's so strange about them is that the decimal value has to increase by 256, not 100, to make the whole number go up by one. This is one major reason that it is difficult to duplicate DKC's physics - it's because of the higher level of precision.

EDIT Before Bumping:
Here's a progress update, since a demo is certainly not viable yet. I have bananas almost working. I got most of it correct except for:
1. Some bananas have incorrect X positions in the engine, it seems to be quite erratic:

Bananas being placed at irregular X positions, with their Y positions being undisturbed.

Bananas_Test.PNG (24.2 KiB) Viewed 172045 times

2.They do not animate correctly. DKC displays the bananas flipped horizontally, and rotates through their frames backwards. I wonder why that is? The banana used for the banana counter is not flipped.

EDIT Again: Level files are now working w/bananas accurately.

[Simion32]

Progress Announcement: For last few days I've been tinkering with the music system, and I've finally fixed something I thought was impossible...

DELTA no longer requires dkcdh.exe to play music. Rather, DELTA will now control SNESAMP directly.

This will eliminate anything being left in memory if DELTA happens to crash/hang. Not only will it eradicate several known problems, it makes the program more compact and simple. Also, this makes DELTA much faster as you won't have to wait for dkcdh to load.

Since I've got the music fixed and bananas are working, it will soon be time for me to begin work on the physics/object engine (that means there will soon be playable levels!). I only have to make a few tweaks to the DKCRE first to make it extract based on ROM data more than a configuration file, and to prepare it for object map extraction.

[edevore]

@Simion32...

When do you think we can expect an update on the delta engine?

You said "You were going to release your documents.." but will you also release your delta source code too?

When the dkc extractor extracts data from the rom (the offsets to some format).. would it be possible to edit them in delta then port them back into the rom..(some format to the offsets)?

[Simion32]

When do you think we can expect an update on the delta engine?

I don't know, possibly within the next week or two. It won't have playable levels at that time, but a new update should be ready soon. The DKCRE is delaying the release significantly because the resource extractor is sort of messed up at the moment.

but will you also release your delta source code too?

No, I won't be releasing source code. If someone needs to know something, I might give details (such as specific ROM data and how to read/load it), but this isn't going to be an open-source project.

would it be possible to edit them in delta then port them back into the rom

That would be a little extreme, as the DKCRE will be able to edit the ROM directly.

[gamer_boy997]

Okay, I have a brilliant idea for the level builder. I'll post a sprite comic explaining my idea... probably tonight? If not, then tomorrow for sure.

[Raccoon Sam]

No, I won't be releasing source code. If someone needs to know something, I might give details (such as specific ROM data and how to read/load it), but this isn't going to be an open-source project.

what
Do you have a specific reason why you wish to keep this project closed? Not only are you smushing the slight possibilities of porting the application to Mac OS X or Linux, you also give a stubborn and a close-minded image of yourself.
I appreciate your hard work towards the project, but ROM hacking-related information and tools shouldn't be anyone's individual property.

[gamer_boy997]

Okay, I posted my idea on the sprite comics page, (yes, I know it was a while ago, but it was at the last second I had to leave, so I couldn't post here), you may post comments either here, or there.

[Simion32]

Progress Announcement: Almost all levels are now loadable once extracted/converted, and the majority (~96%) of them have accurate banana-maps. Levels seem to load within under 1 second, which is good considering the only major data being loaded is a tilemap, tileset and a banana map. Tall levels will load but do not work correctly (the camera limits are messed).

There are also a few bonus rooms and/or 'alternate' level digits that will cause the program to crash. Some levels have incorrect banana maps, and some won't load any bananas at all (most notably Barrel Cannon Canyon, only a few levels are affected by this). You can expect a demo once the few bad errors are fixed.
------------------------------------------------------

Okay, I posted my idea on the sprite comics page (click here to view sprite comic)

Hey, that's a great idea! Never thought of being able to ride the millstones like you do a steel-keg.

Do you have a specific reason why you wish to keep this project closed?

Don't get me wrong; I did consider it being open source. I came to the conclusion of it being closed-source mainly due to the "proprietary" nature of DELTA and the DKCLB.

This is a major ambition of mine to finish this project, not only as an accomplishment, but a learning experience as well. I feel that letting others work on it would ruin the sense of accomplishment, and I would not gain as much experience if DELTA was open-source.

Also, having it open-sourced might create confusion among those attempting to share levels where the file-format was modified in either program. One major reason that I want it closed-source is because there are some set goals; which may not be implemented truly the way I intended them to be in an open-source scenario.

Porting to Mac OS X or Linux

Right now, I'm not decided on whether ports will be made. Will make that decision when this project actually has a leg to stand on (e.g. has been finished or near-finished and is working as intended).

[gamer_boy997]

Hey, that's a great idea! Never thought of being able to ride the millstones like you do a steel-keg.

Why thank you! There are probably other baddies that this could work for to, like the bazooka guy from DKC3, you could defeat him and use his bazooka. There are probably many other baddies this will work for to.

[Cyclone]

My take on the open-source thing is that any ROM related information should definitely be made public. Those who use the ROM info/docs should at the very least credit those who originally created them.

I agree that the proprietary stuff in DELTA/DKLB, the stuff that isn’t directly related to ROM hacking should be closed-source. If I was developing a program I wouldn't want everyone to see my code... At least when its unfinished.

There’s always the idea of allowing people to mod or make plugins for the DELTA engine. Then you can control what people can/cannot do with it.

[Simion32]

Thanks; that's essentially a good summary of what I was trying to say, Cyclone. I don't mind giving out code or examples that are directly related to ROM-specific data.

The level format is very difficult to debug because of it use of bit-wise file access routines (which I call BFAR), the situation doesn't need to be complicated any further by having it open-sourced. That would make it difficult to share levels because you would need a specific version/build of the application to play certain levels, I might be flooded with questions about how it works, etc.

A plugin system sounds like a good idea for later, I'll think about it.

Another small announcement: I've decided to add some of the ROM-data extraction capabilities to DELTA; in doing this, DELTA will no longer require the DKCRE to operate as it has in the past few demos, and I won't have to upload both programs when DELTA gets an update. This will not take long to do either, as both programs are quite similar in structure.

[Raccoon Sam]

words

Oh, I see now. Thanks for clearing that up.
Still, I'm expecting lots of documents.. Dunno if you worded that badly or something, but surely you don't mean..

If someone needs to know something, I might give details such as specific ROM data and how to read/load it

.. right? That makes it sound like you wrote those codes and methods in the first place

Unless you did, of course, and you're an ex-rare employee. :>

[Simion32]

Dunno if you worded that badly or something, but surely you don't mean...

Sorry, I worded that statement badly. I'll confirm that I have never worked for Rare (or any company for that matter). That seems like such a bizarre idea anyway; why would I need to hack the game if I had some advanced technical document on how the game was built?

Still, I'm expecting lots of documents..

I'm not entirely worried about putting out what little "documents" there are until I'm sure I know that's how said things work. Some of it has not been actually written; usually remembered, or put into code somewhere. Most work up until now has been done using Gian's docs, with the exception of a few things (such as the banana-group format).

I will definitely be making a document on the physics, I can assure you that.

[Jeff_Ray Barrels]

I like the looks of this project! At times, I thought it was simply a level editor and it had an engine of its own (or is it?), but I guess that from reading, it's a ROM editor, am I correct? If so, I hope it will be able to edit DKC2 because I wish to do things as legal as possible for the moment, and I only have the second game... but I guess that's no problem, right?

Let's hope for a demo release to come out soon enough (even if it only edits one level, I won't mind. )!

[Simion32]

At times, I thought it was simply a level editor and it had an engine of its own (or is it?), but I guess that from reading, it's a ROM editor, am I correct?

This entire project is both (sort of)...

First there is DELTA and the Level Builder, which will use its own system (like a fan-game would, except much more accurate when compared against the real thing). These two programs are collectively called the DKC Level Builder.

The DKC Resource Editor (as you can see there is a separate thread for it) will edit the ROM, but the ROM-editing will come much later. It mostly contains data viewing/extraction capabilities at the moment.

[Jeff_Ray Barrels]

I kinda found out about it a little later while browsing the forums, but I guess it will help those who need it. Thanks anyways!

Also, I'm looking forward to the release (which better be soon!).

[edevore]

@simion32:
Did you mean that in the future plans of a new editor after the "Delta" program is finished you will be...
(NOTE:No Spoiler Just Hidden Comment)

Spoiler!
working on an actual "DKC/1,2,3" snes smc rom editor/creator which will make them run on regular "Super Nintendo" Pc Emulator or Playstation 2 hardware (with an exception of an emulator for the ps2 such as "Snes Station")?

Or am I wrong?

[Simion32]

Yes, after DELTA there will begin a DKC 1,2,3 ROM editor (which will be started in a late version of DKCRE).

Note: The next update is technically ready, but I'm having trouble with getting the extraction to work (it uses a slightly different method). It's very possible the update will be up within a few hours. For the update, I'll either edit this post or make another post if someone else does.

[edevore]

Simion, Thats great I cant wait till the updates ready.
I have a question "@Simion32"...
On your next post, Can you tell me if the next project which will create roms.. is it fully editable or will it just edit levels and audio,.. If it is fully editable, can custom resources and dkc1, dkc2 and dkc3 resources be imported also?

NOTE: If you dont know what I am saying just ask me and I will try to explain it because this post was hard to explain.